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Masters series S2: Master of Carthage

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Старый 04.09.2018, 20:55   #1
gamilkara
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Masters Series - это серия турниров, в которой каждый турнир будет посвящен одной фракции. В каждом раунде (до 2х побед) игрок будет играть в одном бою за эту фокус-фракцию, в другом против фокус-фракции и если третией бой нужен, то игрок будет играть фракцией, котороый он победил в пред. боях. Таким образом турнир определяет Местера фокус-фракции, т.е игрока который лучше всего играет за нее и контрит ее.

Каждый турнир серии будет лимитирован 16ю участниками, дабы турнир не был долгим и игроки не устали играть бои с участием одной и той же фракции.
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Старый 04.09.2018, 21:00   #2
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в преддверии чр по Тотал Вар решил провести серию небольших турниров на 8-16 человек.
on the eve of the CHR on Total War decided to hold a series of small tournaments for 8-16 people.
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Старый 05.09.2018, 06:57   #3
草龟大战巴西龟
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... but i hate Armenia, Bactria, Cimmeria。I particularly hate their tactics and must use them?
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Старый 05.09.2018, 08:00   #4
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It is not necessary to kite with those factions. If you like to rush for example with Bactria you could go with 3-4 elite hoplites 4 mid-tier swords, some pikes and rush your opponent. Only Cimmeria will have to kite, but even then Cimmerian player will lose, because the faction is just trash.

Последний раз редактировалось Borislav; 05.09.2018 в 11:17.
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Старый 06.09.2018, 05:22   #5
Hamilkar Barca
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i think cimmeria has chances vs carthage, carth cav isnt good enough to kill cimmerian archer/peltast, then u just spam missiles. carth can bring noble fighter but they die easily to missile, and other than them no other carth inf is very good.

hybrid build, with hoplite line and peltast and some archer, maybe a few citizen cavs to tie down carth cav, and HA, will win
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Старый 06.09.2018, 07:23   #6
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Cimmeria will win , if carthage goes for tanky slow build with 3-4 cavs, but no way if carth goes with numidians or light horse to counter ha and 4-6 mid tier cav which are far better than cimmerian cav, especially if you go with noble cav gen. Also carth has peltast for 300 less and balearics will destroy steppe archers. + If you go with ele and tie down the peltast there is no way cimmeria will win. I've played with wolf this matchup a lot (not only in last CoN) and almost every time when he goes with 11 mid tier inf + 4 peltast and 3 carth cavs he loses and every time when he brings a lot of cav and ele or just more manouverable army I am starting to wonder why I am getting raped so hard.

Последний раз редактировалось Borislav; 06.09.2018 в 08:03.
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Старый 06.09.2018, 16:05   #7
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Парни что по вашему нужно поменять в правилах в связи с выходом новых патчей с момента последнего крупного турнира по р2?
Guys what do you need to change in the rules in connection with the release of new patches since the last major tournament in p2?
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Старый 06.09.2018, 17:22   #8
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personally i never thought the "turn off fire at will on cheap spears" was necessary.

Yes, the precursors are powerful, but everyone is going to play with those factions at some point, right?

For me its just an annoying rule addition that takes away from a base aspect of the game but idk what others think
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Старый 06.09.2018, 17:28   #9
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I think that rule should remain because if its removed using pikes will be pretty difficult (especially with factions such as athens/syracuse/pergamon). Some of the rules which are special to factions like ariovistus ban for suebi should be removed, but regarding faction pool in this tournament I don't think anything should be changed.
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Старый 06.09.2018, 18:53   #10
Hamilkar Barca
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maybe, but lets examine the barbarian factions in this tournament.

For lusitani, if I invest in 500 cost Scutarii Spearmen, I should be able to get javelins on these guys. If I cannot, why should a 350 celtic warrior keep their javelin? 500 cost is expensive, and if they cannot keep their javelins, barb spears (already not very good in combat compared to hoplite) become even less helpful.

For arevaci, i guess its ok since their most exp. spear is a scutarii spear, but this raises different question-- now arevaci has a straight upgrade of spear compared to lusitani (same price and stats + javelin). this makes no sense either tbh.

If anything, the rule should be that only cheap (<300) spears dont get javelins. This avoids most issues imo

Lusitani and Arevaci are decent factions but this isn't the same issue as giving levy free javs for arverni/boii because those factions are already top tier.
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Старый 06.09.2018, 19:00   #11
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maybe, but lets examine the barbarian factions in this tournament.

For lusitani, if I invest in 500 cost Scutarii Spearmen, I should be able to get javelins on these guys. If I cannot, why should a 350 celtic warrior keep their javelin? 500 cost is expensive, and if they cannot keep their javelins, barb spears (already not very good in combat compared to hoplite) become even less helpful.

For arevaci, i guess its ok since their most exp. spear is a scutarii spear, but this raises different question-- now arevaci has a straight upgrade of spear compared to lusitani (same price and stats + javelin). this makes no sense either tbh.

If anything, the rule should be that only cheap (<300) spears dont get javelins. This avoids most issues imo

Lusitani and Arevaci are decent factions but this isn't the same issue as giving levy free javs for arverni/boii because those factions are already top tier.
I agree, but I need to listen to the rest.
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Старый 06.09.2018, 22:14   #12
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For this tournament yes, because there are no strong barbs.
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Старый 07.09.2018, 02:57   #13
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in general though, the only spear we need to ban javs for, even w stronger barbs, is levy free. IF u bring spear warriors with arverni, 490 cost, u can have ur javelins imo

also, barbs need these javelins vs eastern faction. without them, catas will ruin your day easily. Should i be forced to bring 4 elite spear vs eastern in order to have javelin? very restricting

Последний раз редактировалось Hamilkar Barca; 07.09.2018 в 03:10.
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Старый 07.09.2018, 06:26   #14
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Point of this rule is to make barb players to bring elite spears. If it is removed you won't see barb expensive spears and now barb spears are really good because shield screen is not bugging out while hoplite wall and shield wall does. I feel like this discussion is more suitable for CoR and later for CoN.
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Старый 07.09.2018, 06:45   #15
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Rules shouldn't be there to "make" players do anything. For me, they should be as minimal as possible. In CON this is different (since factions must be as balanced as possible), but in use-it-lose it style tournament, I think it's better to have fewer rules and have some units and factions be better than others. At least this allows players to be creative and use the full extent of the mechanics of the game.

(yeah this is better discussion for CoN but who knows when that will be lol)
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Старый 07.09.2018, 09:07   #16
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... At least this allows players to be creative and use the full extent of the mechanics of the game.
Ugh this myth again about players becoming creative with minimal rules. Players will just bring whatever meta allowed by the ruleset. By changing rules we just change meta and make more factions playable.
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Старый 07.09.2018, 17:50   #17
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yes, players will always bring meta builds. But by changing the rules, we just change the meta and different builds/factions become meta. The same issues persist.

Of course I agree that some rules do help balance factions, so yes, some rules are needed. But, you must balance overall faction balance with how restrictive rules are. If rules are too restrictive, the game is boring, and there is still a strong meta-build presence (so players will still bring similar builds all the time) because so many units are phased out by the ruleset. If rules are too lenient, then some factions become OP.

For me, though, something like 11 max inf, 6 sword, 4 same is the ideal ruleset (maybe some caps on cav or HA but whatever, this is not very important). It allows for total freedom in choosing armies, no strict rules eliminating game mechanics, but also is fairly balanced.

For those rules, it's true that a shit faction like Pergamon still will lose to Boii or Rome most of the time. But there are so many factions in rome 2 that NO RULESET will balance all factions. What this ruleset does do is balance Sword Factions, Greeks, and Eastern Factions pretty well. This means that High-Tier Eastern Factions will have good chances vs High-Tier Sword facs and Greek facs, and should be able to defeat lower-tier greek/sword facs.

For most tournaments where every player has access to all factions (so not CoN), this is perfectly acceptable.

Even for example in RTW the same thing applies: CWB rules don't balance spain vs rome, but CWB does ensure that good facs from every culture can play vs each other well.

Unfortunately TW games make the CoN such a prestigious tournament when in reality it's the most unfair tournament (which is why it requires so many rules to even try to balance it)
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Старый 08.09.2018, 16:53   #18
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Ugh this myth again about players becoming creative with minimal rules. Players will just bring whatever meta allowed by the ruleset. By changing rules we just change meta and make more factions playable.
Minimal rules make more strategies viable. There are a ton of factions out there that can do a lot of different things, in theory. Having the rules this strict forces everyone to play the same two types of army with every faction.
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Старый 08.09.2018, 19:30   #19
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I think that 4 same, 6-8 swards 12 inf and 3-4 ha is anough after last patch.
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Старый 08.09.2018, 19:41   #20
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I think that 4 same, 6-8 swards 12 inf and 3-4 ha is anough after last patch.
Why even limit HA that much, though? They're pretty easy to counter.
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